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The Sun Prophet Chapter 1, 2, 3 and 4



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Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:04 pm
Elocina says...



:lol: Even if I did get on your nerves, you don't know where I live! :twisted:

.... :? ....
.........
right?
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Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:12 pm
A.O. Avalon says...



*sad* did you have to kill off all of Ravin's men?

Corda is creepy!! i like it :D

is neka the same guy ravin's fighting at the end?

btw, teh LOTR avatar seems very aprapo... i like the Han Solo/ Aragorn references. :P
"El sueño de la razon produce monstrisos"
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Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:38 pm
A.O. Avalon says...



The cave as dank and smelt of rotting flesh, but it would have to do. Anywhere but the open as the sun ascends to it’s lofty perch in the sky, where it shoots down light. Anywhere within it’s grasp. Because they were hiding. The cave could have to do. It was hidden in a deep valley, guarded by two adjacent cliffs and shaded from the sun. And it stretched far inwards. With no bedding they found themselves uncomfortable on the bare stone. It was cold and they’d love to roll on the grass outside. But that would mean capture, and death. So they were cold instead.


This paragraph is somewhat redundant...
it would have to do.

The cave could have to do.


Anywhere but the open as the sun ascends to it’s lofty perch in the sky, where it shoots down light.

they’d love to roll on the grass outside. But that would mean capture, and death


See what I mean?
and actually
Anywhere but the open as the sun ascends to it’s lofty perch in the sky, where it shoots down light

doesn't need "where it shoots down light"-- it just elongates and over explains an easy to understand sentence.

think that pretty much wraps this up.
"El sueño de la razon produce monstrisos"
--Fransisco de Goya
  





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Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Elocina says...



You getting all that? Between AOA and me, you're getting quite the earful on stuff to change.
At least we aren't tearing it to shreds...
I'm going to go off on a tangent now. What if Ravin won?...hmmm...
Nope. My mind is blank. Still, gotta feel sympathetic for Ravin, all the people he's losin.
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Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:31 am
A.O. Avalon says...



Ravin won't meet the girl if he doesn't lose, right? (just a feeling...)
That's right! this is constructive critism because you know we love it, we just want to see it be as wonderful as it has the potential to be!
i think you should try re-writing the scene to Ravin technically winning but Corda being a slimebag and having him carted off anyway. See if that takes you anywhere. Plus it gives Ravin a reason beside just wounded pride to want to kick Corda's face in later.
"El sueño de la razon produce monstrisos"
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Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:58 pm
Firestarter says...



'grey' means old and 'gray' is the color. Or, that's what my handy dictionary says.


Actually, I'm in the UK, "grey" is the colour too :)

Thanks for all all the critiquing guys, I'd edit it now, but I need to keep bombing on with it! At the end I'll look back and rewrite lots of bits!
Nate wrote:And if YWS ever does become a company, Jack will be the President of European Operations. In fact, I'm just going to call him that anyways.
  





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Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:20 pm
Elocina says...



I was wondering if 'grey' meant 'gray' to us weird folks. It does. I'll add that to my list.
1) civilised, civilized
2) grey, gray
I use gray quite a bit, so heads up for editing my stuff in the future.
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:25 pm
WinterGrimm says...



Alright. Here' my critique of Chapter One.

The night had been chosen well, as it was pitch black, no moon there to disrupt the advantage of darkness.

as black as pitch and no moon to disrupt the advantage of darkness is saying the same thing twice. Cut as it was pitch black. Also delete "there" as in The night had been chosen well, no moon to disrupt the advantage of darkness.


Weather was perfect too; no disruptive winds and it was relatively warm, at least for this early in the year

Some uneeded words here. Try something on the order of "The weather was perfect too, no disruptive winds and it was relatively warm for this early in the year." maybe.

So the two boats smoothly progressed towards the awaiting beach, and their passengers made ready for arrival

Cut so. Unneeded. Also do the boats need to progress smoothly? I'm not sure that adverb adds anything. You might want to cut it.

On the first stood a tall man.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about the boat but this is not the time for indirect pronous. Say that the tall man is on the boat here. Otherwise it might get a big confusing.

He had a crude telescope out and was watching their destination calmly. His face was one of concern and worry

This is passive. Try something like "He had a crude telescope out and was watching their desination calmly, his face shown concern." or ",his face shown worry." either way.

"We need to be careful, something appears to be strange.”

This line just doesn't sound like something someone would say. I don't like it.

The men took no surprise to these news, such missions often went awry, and most just nodded indifferently.

This sentence should start a new paragraph.

But they stood up and prepared themselves, except the rower.

It a little passive-y. "All but the rower stood up and prepared themselves."

A soft bump and they were ashore, ten men jumping out, leaving two to protect the boats.

At this point we know how many of them there are and that they are leaving the boats. I would suggest cutting this sentence.

They quickly split into three groups, working quickly.

Don't use the same adverb twice in one sentence. Unless you're saying they're working quietly. Which I don't really thing you need to say because you've already set up that this is a pretty stealthy operation.

They quickly split into three groups, working quickly. Two groups went east and west, and the larger group went forward. With them was the tall leader, who had snatched a note from his pocket and was reading it carefully. His mind was engrossed in thought; the writing was vague, perhaps he didn’t mean tonight at all? Too late to forget it now, may as well wait now we’re here. He was distracted by the return of the first group.

I just don't like this paragraph. There's a good amount of passive voice and wordiness. I'd say just read this paragraph out loud. You should see where it doesn't work.

His name was Ravin and he was worried.

We've established this CUT! Instead with the first sentence perhaps say "Ravin didn't reply."

Maybe they’d be tricked?

"Maybe we've been tricked?" Is that what you mean to say? If not who are they? I'm confused.

It was perfectly possible for the contact to have been lying and playing them off to the authorities all the time, but he was one of the older ones and had been loyal in the past.

Who was one of the what who's? Imprecise pronouns make me confused. I also don't think you need "all the time" in there. It just clutters it up. "It was perfectly possible for the contact to have been lying and playing them off to the authorities." It makes sense to me that way.

The second group returned a minute later, but the news was the same, no sign of the contact.

Revise. "The second group retruned a short while later with news of the same." Or somethig to that effect.

The note had said, Dozen after Full Moon, usual place, usual time.
Same pirate time, same pirate channel! ^_^

Yet, still, he was, but his own admittance, a selfish man.

Read this sentence aloud. Its VERY akward. "Yet, he was still, and by his own admittance, a selfish man." Is a little better.

He’d never have imagined himself risking his own skin for people he had connection too, no responsibility for it.

I've read this sentence three or four times and I think I get the idea of what you're trying to say but the sentence doesn't make alot of sense. Are you saying he has a connection to the people or he doesn't? And the "no responisbility for it" confuses me even further.

It was well-paid work, if he was truthful, and the money allowed him to buy enough food despite the famine, because the cities were well stocked, and despite the guards not allowing in anyone, he found it easy enough to give them the slip.

Uber runon. Fix it.

I know I said this was my critique. But my brain is jelly right now. So I'll leave this for later. This btw is pages 1 and 2.

And also you should know that you don't have to do everything I tell you to. I think you know that but I'd like to retierate. This is your story and eveything I say is a suggestion to be taken or not. Although I'd like to think that what I'm saying is worth consideration. I think there's good stuff in here and I like Ravin and where this is going. I like the idea of swashbuckling fantasy. Keep it up and I'll get back to critiquing I swear.
That love is suffering is easy to see, for before the love becomes equally balanced on both sides there is no torment greater, since the lover is always in fear that his love may not gain its desire and that he is wasting his efforts.
Andreas Cappelanus, The Art of Courtly Love
  





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Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:28 pm
WinterGrimm says...



C Elocin wrote:I was wondering if 'grey' meant 'gray' to us weird folks. It does. I'll add that to my list.
1) civilised, civilized


*note Fire is English. He uses a purer form of the language than us American sods. Its perfectly correct.
That love is suffering is easy to see, for before the love becomes equally balanced on both sides there is no torment greater, since the lover is always in fear that his love may not gain its desire and that he is wasting his efforts.
Andreas Cappelanus, The Art of Courtly Love
  





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Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:44 pm
Firestarter says...



And also you should know that you don't have to do everything I tell you to. I think you know that but I'd like to retierate. This is your story and eveything I say is a suggestion to be taken or not. Although I'd like to think that what I'm saying is worth consideration. I think there's good stuff in here and I like Ravin and where this is going. I like the idea of swashbuckling fantasy. Keep it up and I'll get back to critiquing I swear.


Thanks for all that work! That was really really helpful!

Thanks mate, thanks a lot.
Nate wrote:And if YWS ever does become a company, Jack will be the President of European Operations. In fact, I'm just going to call him that anyways.
  





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Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:01 am
WinterGrimm says...



Chapter One critique continues.


It was well-paid work, if he was truthful, and the money allowed him to buy enough food despite the famine, because the cities were well stocked, and despite the guards not allowing in anyone, he found it easy enough to give them the slip.

Full of icky passiveness. "The work paid well. Enough so that he always had a hot meal in the midst of a famine. Cities were well stocked with food. Despite the ample amount of guards not allowing access to the food, Ravin found it easey enough to give them the slip."

But this wasn’t the main reason, there were other jobs.

I'd start the next paragraph with this sentence. It marks a new idea that is fleshed out in that paragraph. Its also passive. "Neither money nor charity were Ravin's chief motivators."

No, to be perfectly honest, he did it for the exhilaration, the adrenaline, and the chase. No job did it better.

Let me show you what I'd do to the beginning of this paragraph. "Neither money nor charity were Ravin's chief motivators. He did it for the exhilaration, the adrenaline, and the chase." Cut the next sentence.

Having no real connection or love for the Norfor High Council, it gave him no end of pleasure to take food from their greedy hands, and watch them helplessly attempt to control the situation.

It also gave him pleasure to take from the greedy hands of the Norfor High Council. Ravin had no love for them and found their attempts to control his thievery endlessly amusing." (*note: good job on using the correct council (counsel). I always get those mixed up.)

They sat down. The sand was soft and scattered with wild weeds, yet it was still comfortable. Compared to the hardness of the boat, it was more like a luxury.

Start a new paragraph here. But honestly who's sitting? I believe its Ravin's men. But I dont' know if Ravin is sitting down himself or not. "Ravin and his men sat upon the soft, weed ridden grass. It seemed quite comfortable when compared to the ridged stiffness of the boat."

It left Ravin more time to collect his thoughts, as well.

"As the fatigue lifted from his tired legs Ravin had time to collect his thoughts."

Some of the men decided to play some cards. He declined to play, and sat a bit away from them. Never was a gambling man.

I'd start a new paragraph here too. But I'd also like to see more to this scene like a dialog between a crewmate and Ravin. I want to see names and personalities for a few of his shipmates.


The hours passed slowly, all the time edging towards the sunrise. If they were left here by then, their bodies would stain the sandy beach. So there was little time left. Still, nobody complained at the wait. Most of them were hungry, most of them had families back in the Isles, expecting. Coming back there empty handed was an embarrassment and a disappointment. But when you came back holding barrels, the crowds flocked and cheered, and for that day, you were a hero.

In this paragraph we are given four very important ideas in a fragmented way. Also we are given these facts way too fast. This could easily be three paragraphs of information.
I would start the paragraph saying "The late hours of the night edged slowly toward sunrise. If Riven and his men were caught in the daylight they would likely end up staining the beach with their blood."
Then in the next paragraph you can talk about why they are staying when the danger is increasing. The consiquences of returning with no food and contrast that with what its like to come back with food.

“Someone coming, Rav,” said one of the men, running back from his original position at the north of the beach, “I think it’s him. Bloody late, but man’s here.”

"Someone's coming, Rev," said one of his men, running from his position on north beach. "I think its him. Bloody late, but he's here."

Ravin just nodded. They were sometimes late. Not this late usually though, and Ravin felt a strange chill down his spine again. He didn’t like the unusual. It usually meant something had changed, and change was usually for the worse.

"Ravin nodded. Sometimes the contacts were late, but never this late. It was unusual, and something unusual meant something had changed; and change is often for the worst."

“My friends…” he started, but as shocked by Ravin’s sudden interruption.

"My friends..." he started.

Ravin said quickly.

Cut quickly. We assume he's talking quickly. Adds nothing.

The man regained his composure, and said, “I had other business. Surely you must understand! I am here now, and that’s all that matters.”

The man regained his composure, how? Is there particular gesture that he does? Drop "and said"

“I hope that business wasn’t swapping coin with any commanders,” Ravin muttered with an accusatory tone, looking the man up and down suspiciously,

"Ravin said, looking the man up and down."

the man replied, but not with much veracity, he looked much more concerned with the weapon at Ravin’s belt, and beckoned them to follow him, turning to go, with just a faint hint of sweat forming on his brow.

"the contact replied with a distinct lack of veracity as he eyed the weapon in Ravin's belt. He turned to leave.
new paragraph
Ravin noticed a faint hint of sweat forming on his brow."
Okay Ravin knows something's up. Why is he letting the man go? He should be pummeling the snot out of him for the truth. Also mention that the man is leading them I was confused here.

“Sheyas and Reina, stay here with the boats

cut the "and". Make them two sentences "Sheyas! Reina!" Also I'd like to know who these guys are earlier.

Make sure this filth ain’t lying to us.”

I"m not sure Ravin would say ain't

Tantra, the man who had reported the initial sighting, moved off swiftly ahead, his eyes never stopping, his head turning ceaselessly

Name Tantra earlier. Also very wordy and passive. "Tantra moved ahead swiftly, keeping a vigilant point."

They made their route north across the dunes and were soon onto grass, in the form of a steep hill. The going wasn’t hard however, the path was yielding and they made quick progress. Soon, they had met the top and they stared down the other side. There, was a city, lights glistening in the darkness. Norforda, City of Stars. Ravin stared hard into its faint outline. It wasn’t the first time he had looked upon the capital or Norfor.

"The smugglers moved across sand dunes until they became a grassy hill." I'm not going to into the paragraph other than to say that you need to look for passive voice and make it not.
Also, what does the city look like? Is there a wall around the city. Is there any nightlife or is the town dark and dead. I was under the impression that the food would be brought to them. Why are they in the city now? I'm confused. If there's a reason I'm missing maybe its because you haven't explained it well enough.

he said, his body action displaying sheer nervousness, as he took a step back

Don't say his body action. Just say he was nervous. Or better yet show me he's nervous. Talk about his sweat, or how he's fidgeting with something.

“Here’s half,” he said impassively, grasping inside his jacket and throwing a jingling brown bag into the man’s chest, “Other half when we get the stuff out safely.”

Cut impassively. "You'll get the other half when we get the stuff out safely." When you have dialog its best just to say said, and sometimes asked and answered. You don't need any adverbs in there because the line usually infers how its being said. There may be exceptions but as a general rule its good.

I could continue on. But I think I've given enough clues as to how you can fix the rest of your story. Just read the whole thing aloud to yourself and you'll pick out the problem areas. I'll look at Chapter One again once you revise it. Also look out for passive voice it is your enemy as well as unneeded adverbs.
That love is suffering is easy to see, for before the love becomes equally balanced on both sides there is no torment greater, since the lover is always in fear that his love may not gain its desire and that he is wasting his efforts.
Andreas Cappelanus, The Art of Courtly Love
  





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Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:59 pm
Elocina says...



Winter, I'd like you to check out my post when you've got the time. Its 'Chapter 1 of the Regicide'. One of the things we have to bear in mind when critiquing is that some writers take on a bit of a poetic streak and the grammer isn't perfect. I've read a few books like that. The question is, how much bending the G-rules (grammer rules) can be allowed?
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Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:20 pm
WinterGrimm says...



C Elocin wrote:Winter, I'd like you to check out my post when you've got the time. Its 'Chapter 1 of the Regicide'. One of the things we have to bear in mind when critiquing is that some writers take on a bit of a poetic streak and the grammer isn't perfect. I've read a few books like that. The question is, how much bending the G-rules (grammer rules) can be allowed?

I'm actually critiquing more for passive voice and wordiness than actuall grammar. Actually there's two forms of grammar. Grammar A which is the formal writing when you write a paper for school or something. Then there's Grammar B which includes fragment sentences, labyrinthine sentences, and other poetic influence in prose.
That love is suffering is easy to see, for before the love becomes equally balanced on both sides there is no torment greater, since the lover is always in fear that his love may not gain its desire and that he is wasting his efforts.
Andreas Cappelanus, The Art of Courtly Love
  





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Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:39 pm
A.O. Avalon says...



I disagree with some of Winter's edits. In theatrical works, yes you would want to cut out descriptisions--they inhibit the actor.
However, in fiction, the only way for the audience to see the urgency of a scene is for the author to write it in. So description is neccessary.
But I do think you could do more showing vs. telling, and could probably pull out the Thesaurus too. (Don't take that personally, I just think everyone should use Thesaurus' more--I'm glued to mine.)

Winter you aren't by any chance an English major are you?
"El sueño de la razon produce monstrisos"
--Fransisco de Goya
  





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Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:53 pm
WinterGrimm says...



I have nothing against description. But you do have to tell a tight story and everything has to have a purpose. In fact I think that this story, if anything, could do with some more descriptions. What I disagree with is the use of passive voice and adverbs that really don't strengthen the verb. As far as using a thesaurus in all the edits I made I tried to stick as close as I could to the origenal author's words. These are quick fixes that I don't expect to be used verbatum. They're just a place to start from. I also agree that there could be more showing rather than telling. Perhaps I should have pointed that out more often.

And yes I am an english major. It says so in my profile. ^_^
That love is suffering is easy to see, for before the love becomes equally balanced on both sides there is no torment greater, since the lover is always in fear that his love may not gain its desire and that he is wasting his efforts.
Andreas Cappelanus, The Art of Courtly Love
  








Love is so short, forgetting is so long.
— Pablo Neruda